Ulmaria

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Farkam
Member
Posts: 45

Ok, some people will trow me stones, other will cheers.


Me, Soul seven and Hitomi were talking about the gold drop/enchant system and all the update that happend recently etc etc... that being said we came to a conclusion;

A reset would be good.


Right now, old vet have some stuff we dont see anymore (not a big deal really (colored ethy etc) and a HUGE advantage (high gold drop, low cost to enchant, item that cant be made anymore etc..) befor it has been updated. result is; vets get to kill high stuff, while noob suffer the... noobiness they are in xD It is hard for them to follow us, and its sad that the staff has to nerf/change stuff so we cant abuse of it while noob just suffer from it. Best exemple would be evo drop, as they removed all [strong] mobs that had 5k fame- ... I know, I personnaly abused the afking.



So, now that some explanation has been given, let talk about it. Not to piss everyone and make them leave, it would be a good way to restart everything. Some compensation would be nice, like skill balls, cash and/or some starting equipment. Maybe even a big event to start the new "Ulmaria". The compensation could even be depending on the age of the char you had (so a 30 days old char would have some more stuff than a 3 days old), nothing exponential, but still something more (more skill balls/money/colored ethy) etc...



Anyway, if this idea actualy see the light, it would be nice to do it soon so we dont just all keep playing for "nothing" at the moment. For me, a reset is necesary for a better future! :D

October 12, 2011 at 7:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Selius
Member
Posts: 7

no

when you join a shard with a level system you accept the fact that the first people on it will always be strongest unless they get lazy


i just joined yesterday and if they wiped i'd quit

October 12, 2011 at 7:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Farkam
Member
Posts: 45

Ahah, fun how someone who just joined would quit for... a day worth of laber while I would accept the fact I just passed a month of work for not too much (I still had fun, so its not wasted). Maybe the compensation they would give to everyone would be greater than what you did so far! (just saying) so it wouldnt be lost. Also, the lvl system wasnt there since the start. It got there about a month ago (actualy, the same week I joined) and (yes, I afked back than) I got to lvl 54 now... so what? its just a number next to my name. they could also bring back the same x3 xp they put for the roll back a while ago. this would help to restart.

Anyway; got other arguments (while talking to Dracolith about this):

The gold. Wasnt too hard to come by money befor. going on a champ run whit vet (group of 4-6) and you ended up whit 150-300k in your pocket, even has a noob. now its complicated. the same champ wont give more than 200-300k, and arnt worth going whit a big group (since they are soloable or douable in duo) so adding a third/fourth player still remove 25-33% of the gain (going from 100k to 66k is kinda frustrating, all that for someone who dosnt do much) Giving them even less chance to catchup.

 

 

We also need to see in the future. I dont see all new player find it too hard to start or stuff like this. some stick whit us (Selius as a proof :P) but it may not be the good approach for the long run. we see too many player arrive and leave not long after, or even older player leave because its too "easy" (Being able to solo the harrower... I even start to think myself about this (PS: buffing it wont make it any better, as the reward/difficulty wouldnt be worth it, and still again make it harder for the new players to get to this point themself (PPS: I solo it, but take a while to kill it, and is a pain to do))

October 12, 2011 at 8:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Reduvaii
Member
Posts: 41

Hi, Im Reduvaii.


My account is 32 days old.


I must be one of these "VETS" your talking about. Because not only have I killed every monster in the game, but ive killed plenty of these "players" that have 140+ days on their account.


There have been only a slight few "nerfs" that arent even bad - Gold drop from Champs and a few other mobs, Evo items not having self repair, and strong being 5000 fame or more.


There have been "Buffs" though - Enhancement system has more buffs ( THUS DIRECTLY INCREASING THE COST - LOL LOGIC ) being the main one.


As for these mystical "rares" - They get them for events - If your voting that events are bad, you can just say no more custom/unique items for events. And those rares are just that - rare.


P.S. - So far - the majority of everyone I have come across is new to RUNUO mechanics. I constantly have heard "gold is 2 hard 2 get!". If you were to do a reset right now - by 3 or 4 days id be back up to being able to make roughly 100k per 15 minutes - And no fucking champs.


Does me having knowledge over the mechanics of the game, spawns, ect - give me an unfair advantage over the new players?


I look forward to any more reasons you can muster up as to why a reset is nessecary - and why other small changes would be to difficult to put in. ( Such as- I guess buffing gold )

October 12, 2011 at 8:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Adam
Site Owner
Posts: 387

ok well let me start off by saying i will never ever ever ever ever wipe the server. 

every shard has its vets and people at last level or whatever. we have a lo tof gold sinks.  why would i ever want to restart the server? thats just throwing eveyrones hard work out.

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October 12, 2011 at 8:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Polaris
Administrator
Posts: 208

Reset would be a poor idea. IMO.

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October 12, 2011 at 8:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Adam
Site Owner
Posts: 387

of course it would.  for the sake of what? making everyone equal? lol

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October 12, 2011 at 8:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Farkam
Member
Posts: 45

I would love everyone to be equal! ;D ahah, nan but I was just launching the idea :P. I like RED's arguments (well, most of them xD) its just that it seems like a while since I havnt seen new player "coming out" of the "newb phase" ... ;/ maybe just me.

October 12, 2011 at 8:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

AldarHawk
Moderator
Posts: 300

I disagree that a shard wipe is in order.


I have been playing here for some time, and even though I am not a highly skilled fighter I can still pull in 20K with ease. If there was a full reset of the shard. I would have to say that I would be very upset. Unless in this reset they placed in seperate leveling systems, where as a Warrior would Gain Warrior Levels, a Tamer would Gain Tamer Levels, a Mage would gain Magery Levels and a Crafter would gain Crafter levels.


This is what it will take to level the game out. because just fighting to gain your abililty to craft is silly. You should need to do the thing you are trying to gain to get better at it.

Imagine a Level 54 Warrior picking up a sewing kit and making some armor. That would not happen. They would seek out a crafter to build the items for them. This way they concentrate their time to what their calling is for.


Right now a level 54 player can get up to 127 skill points in all skills. I do not know many people who this would effect to a great extent, as they would not focus on skills like tailoring above GM because all they want to do is repair. However, A crafter will take a long time to gain anything above level 20 (take it from one with experiance).


So I think a reset is not something we should be looking at. Rather a way to help level the playing field. Perhaps make newbies start somewhere other than Ocllo Inn, and set up a donation box that fills with what "VETS" throw into the Ocllo trash can? This way Vets can donate items to newbies to give them a leg up. We would use the honor system for the newbies to take only what they need to start their character. Also, characters that are on accounts older than 15 days would not be able to access the box.


Thoughts?

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October 12, 2011 at 8:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Reduvaii
Member
Posts: 41

Im level 54 - with LEGENDARY CRAFTING, Cause im a crafter.


And I did have lots of super racist shit in my original arguement, like how ameriCANS - can get to the same level as vets, and canadiCANTS - arent able to.


Thoughts?

October 12, 2011 at 9:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

AldarHawk
Moderator
Posts: 300

Lol. That is because I spend my days in a mine. not fighting dragons.


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October 12, 2011 at 9:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dracolith
Member
Posts: 7

The only reason I would be for a wipe is because of the recent changes to certain things like lowering of gold off champs/monsters and the price hike in enchanting makes it completely lopsided against newers players. Now obviously older players on any shard should have better items and a higher level. But I think in this case it used to be super easy to get more gold and enchanting items was nothing. So older players had it really easy wheras new players have it rough. Thats where I come in, in the middle. I've got good items but I did it all when it was harder to get gold and more costly to enchant. I'm not saying im the only one, but i'm saying i'm one of a few who did. I feel it would hurt people like me the most which is why im only partly for it. So right now its basicly ridiculously lopsided towards people who got all their stuff when it was easy mode. Thats my tohught.

October 12, 2011 at 11:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dracolith
Member
Posts: 7

Oh thats another tihng I wanted to add. If you do do a wipe there needs to be a dungeon revamp... they're shit and basicly all the same.

October 12, 2011 at 11:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dante
Member
Posts: 27

I guess I'm one of these veterans everyone speaks of that got the benefit of this and that advantage. A server reset is not the way to go about things, as all that will do is drive people away: people who have invested time playing, training, gathering resources, and so on will not want to do it all over again, and the people that continue to play post-wipe will question whether or not another reset in the future will wipe out all their time and enjoyment yet again. Angel Island was a semi-popular old-school shard with some neat little changes whose community was pretty much killed thanks to server resets. Such an option is a last resort, not a first response, to a problem.


Having said that, and having been here for a good long while, I have a few observations that may be helpful for the conversation at hand. Essentially, what I wish to argue is that most of the problems with gold and items and the like, both months ago when I was a newb and today, come from a distinct and utter lack of game balance. There are adjustments that had to be made at the start of the shard solely because having the higher skill and stat caps was going to be unbalancing in comparison to the base game, and this problem only requires a few tweaks to fix. While I point out a number of problems I see here, I feel that the enchanting system is the primary problem that has contributed to other secondary problems like the ease of collecting gold.


- Leather Hooded Robes - Ever since these robes with stats on them were added, they have become a seventh armor piece that almost everyone wears. By adding it into the world, it became easier to load up on magic properties and spread enchant costs around because you had another item slot to utilize - on top of that, because everywhere wears them, everyone also looks the same!


- Damage Increase Cap (or lack thereof) - Removing the Damage Increase cap should not have happened as it quite naturally made things easier to kill.


- Enchanting - In the long run, I think the enchanting system has been a giant mistake. Despite being a gold sink, it has way too easily allowed people to get full 100% LRC suits, all 70s resist suits, full health/mana/stam leech weapons, tons of stat boosts and regens, and so on that has thrown balance out the window. It is harder to enchant things these days, but even under the current system it makes people more powerful than they ever could or should be in comparison to base UO. The ability to load up on more enchantments than one could find on a spawned magic item has allowed players like me to basically roll over just about any tough creature in the game. We had spellcrafting here once, it also created big problems along similar lines, and now we don't have spellcrafting - so why do we still have enchanting? Because of this system, there is no reason for me to even bother looking at monster loot for good magic items, no reason for me to buy said items from a player vendor, and no reason for me to use paragon artifacts. If Doom artifacts showed up tomorrow, I wouldn't use them except as a collector's item and decoration piece: some may have magic item properties beyond what can normally appear on an item, but I can, with time and money, make any item better overall than even artifact-level weapons.


- Evo weapons/armor - These were another mistake in terms of balance for much of the same reasons above, only except instead of enchanting what you want you get a bunch of really good enchants standard to any weapon/armor piece, all above and beyond the normal number of item properties that would appear on a looted magic item. I saw someone over chat the other day talking about how easy balrons and other high-end creatures were to fight. Well gee, I wonder if it has to do with the fact that you're swinging a weapon with 95% DI and a slew of Hit on Strike spells with a bunch of SSI to boot - all while being able to cast spells too!


- Player-Run Economy and Vendors - Why bother? Having no skill cap can turn every person into one-man self-suppliers, but not everyone is going to want to train crafting and gathering skills. With enchanting, though, there's no reason to ever buy crafted weapons/armor or even looted magic armor or weapons with 100% physical damage. Once you have a decent enough evo wep, why buy another and spend all the time raising it up when you got a nive one in your hands already? For new players, I suspect the only things worth purchasing are loaded potion kegs and repair contracts. For old people like me who, thanks to broken systems like enchanting and spellcrafting and the like, the only thing I would ever buy from any of your vendors are event/paragon/SOS/whatever rares and 100% elemental weapons (because I collect them). There is no magic anything you have worth selling: not to me, and not to other players.


- Champions - When I joined here, there were two immediate problems I foresaw with champions. The first was that, because you could fight them as they were without grinding through spawn to put skull candles on a platform, people were going to spend little to no resources (potions, regs, bandages, etc) actually getting to them. The second was that, as one got more gold for more enchants, they were going to get easier over time. And that they did, so much so that people would camp them, wait for them to spawn, kill them, load up all the gold on a beetle and hit up the bank. Much like hooded leather robes are essential clothing today, beetles were essential mounts months ago. Because enchanting made magic items easy to get, the staff has had to continuously boost their stats and damage, change the spawn or environment around them, and make other tweaks to make them harder to fight. This fixed the problem of "champions are too easy to fight," but these tweaks would have all been unnecessary if only someone asked "why are they so easy to fight?" That answer, I believe, is - surprise! - the enchantment system. It was that system that allowed us veterans to eventually solo them. It was that system that was our reason for collecting all that gold. It was that system that led them to continuously get changed around.


- Gold - Even without champions, gold was still relatively easy to get because enchantments also made non-champion creatures easier to fight. Months ago, however, we could still only carry 60-70k at a time, more on a beetle, but we had to leave places and go to banks eventually. At one point, gold became weightless, meaning someone could solo a champion, drop it all in their backpack, and bank it without having to worry about having a beetle killed or anything like that. Gold is still essentially weightless: it weighs 6 stones at 60,000 pieces when it would normally weigh 400. You could park yourself in a dungeon and load up your pack for a long long time with that kind of coin-to-stone ratio. On top of that old problem that still persists, more recent changes have made gold even easier to collect because now you don't even have to sift through corpses to get it! I disagree with Dracolith about dungeons not being very good, as they are better than they were in the past - all the monsters in them, however, are essentially crap when people have way overpowered evo and enchanted weps/armor to fight them. As I see it, gold drops are being driven down as a response to everything being too easy to kill, and you can't buff every creature in response to them being too easy to kill because then they'll be too harder to kill for the starting players on the other end of the scale.


I know people have complained that veterans like me are at a greater advantage by having had access to easy champions who gave out lots of gold for cheap enchantments. I can say pretty confidently that I am where I am today because of one thing: the enchantment system. I believe that it to be one of the primary causes of gold being so easy to get, the easiness of monsters and champions alike, the lack of anything worthwhile to sell on player vendors, etc. A full shard reset is not something I think we need - an item wipe to get rid of all the overpowered and broken weapons and amor, as well as the removal of the enchantment system and evo weapons/armor entirely, would do a lot towards fixing problems, but that's something nobody really wants either. Were I an admn faced with these balance problems, this would probably be my course of action in lieu of a full reset.


- Items/Magic Properties: Remove the enchantment system and evo weapons/armor from the world, never to be seen again. Remove all weapons/armor/jewelry made via the enchant system from the game, either via shard-wide item wipe or a long destroy-on-sight campaign by the staff. Remove all leather hooded robes from the game. As compensation, provide each player with a reasonably decent weapon of the player's choice, the choice of a 100% LRC suit or 70's resist suit of armor, and the choice of any one Dungeon Doom weapon/armor artifact. No items created for compensation purposes would have Self-Repair. Add back in Damage Increase cap and return all other caps to default levels. Remove bless deeds and the ability to bless items from the game (insurance is fine).


- Gold - Return gold drop rates to normal on all creatures. Remove commands for quick corpse looting and once again require players to open corpses and drag gold into packs. Return gold weight to default level (150 gold pieces = 1 stone, translating to 60,000 pieces = 400 stone). Add back in the floor-drop system of gold distribution for champions.


- Champions - Return champions to default strengths (or lower toughness on custom champions) and adjust strength according to a "truer" toughness (players will eventually find decent magical weapons and higher skill/stat cap; champions should be made tougher based on this, not based on people with ridiculous weapons and armor). Bring back the spawn grinds and platforms method of summoning and fighting champions and place the original champion platforms in their default locations (Barracoon on Ogre Lord Isle in Despise, Rikktor in the back of the first level of Destard, etc); for custom champions, determine appropriate champion spawn for platform system and place in other dungeons or elsewhere on the mainland. Add back in the skull method of summoning the Harrower so skulls are worth collecting and have a purpose (wipe all skulls from game before doing so).


That plan would get rid of all the offending items, which many of you wouldn't be happy about, but it would allow you to keep your accounts, characters, houses, gold, and any and all items except for weapons and armor. Compensated weapons/armor will allow you to get back on your feet with very decent starter gear so you can start your search for more powerful magic weapons and armor. There would be a reason for you to actually care about the magic items that appear on high-level monsters again, and you would be more invested in putting together and maintaining via repairs a magic or crafted set of weapons and armor. Without overpowered weapons and armor, monster and champion difficulty will actually make sense again and their difficulty can be adjusted "cleanly" according to the fact that this is a no skillcap shard with a higher stat cap. Going through spawn platforms to get to champions will encourage players to work together for champions, using potions, bandages, reagents, and so on in the process (I suspect that very few of you actually see the need to carry any sort of potion under current circumstances), and champion platforms will draw players into dungeon floors they might not otherwise visit. Gold will spawn in the amounts they are supposed to on creatures, but you will have to fetch it yourself and you will not be able to carry hundreds of thousands of it.


I've been here for many months now, and I have really enjoyed playing here since this place has a lot of good things to offer - Reaper and Polaris do some really great stuff with the scripting, for example. In that time, I've come to believe that the enchant system and changes like weightless gold have essentially broken game balance, and over the months I've played here the response has usually been to make more changes, tweaks, and adjustments related to symptoms rather than fix the original causes or to roll back the changes that created a new problem. Unless a better understanding of game balance is had, and unless the staff consider removing offending systems like enchantments and evo items and rolling back other unbalancing changes, this problem is going to persist ad infinitum. Newer players will never catch up to players like me, DearDeath, Lou, and other veterans in gold and magic weapons/armor as things currently stand. Instead, for newer players to catch up and be on par with one another, us veteran players who got all those advantages and have all those items would have to drop out and disappear - given drama-like events over the past couple of months, this is already happening to some extent. Even then, it still isn't enough to fix everything I currently see wrong with Ulmaria.

October 13, 2011 at 4:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Reece
Member
Posts: 109

Probably, no, definitely the best post to date.


I am one to agree with Dante about the Enchantment System. Crafters should be able to control the market with Runic made armour and weapons, whilst loot from monster should be considered worthy too. I NEVER look in Monsters corpses as the items are nothing compared to what an enchanted item CAN be.

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GrandMaster Annoyance

October 13, 2011 at 6:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TwiSted
Member
Posts: 20

Resetting would simply kill the population of the server. I used to play a shard called The Drkside. ws hugly successful years ago, over 120 players online regularly. 1 wipe cut it down to 80 the next to about 10. Wipe = Frustration = no fun = leave.

I agree there needs to be more swing towards the crafters as personally i have no need at all to bother crafters for any equipment. A) the skills are thhat easy to get that everyone could gm most crafts in a matter of days and B) the reward for doing so is not that great when you find out you can only sell your gear for a poor price to noobs who will soon realise the enhancement system is far superior. I mean a barbed leather piece struggles to sell for 1k i can make 1k in 1 kill... approx 30 seconds to make that ammount yet no one will pay it for armour. weapons still seem to have worth, runic armour has nill though.

October 13, 2011 at 6:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Selius
Member
Posts: 7

it's because the enhancement system takes all the mods as penalties against price.


i played a shard where your equipment leveled up with you but none of the dropped mods counted against the cost of upgrading, so that you would STILL check that ancient wyrm's body for jewelry because you might get a crazy good base item.


here i just find it stupid that spined leather costs a fuckload more to enhance than basically all the other leather types just beause it has a useless 40 luck per piece

October 13, 2011 at 6:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TwiSted
Member
Posts: 20

agreed. Its frustrating the only reason i check corpses at the minute is for slayers and even then that will stop soon when i have the one i want. Oh i might check a corpse for a tali on the correct mob too lol

October 13, 2011 at 6:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Reduvaii
Member
Posts: 41

Ill agree with dante.


You put in those changes and you will be.. oh wait.. LOL - Why play then? Go through loot and try to find items to mix and match and be at the mercy of the roles?  Why collect gold? You get a few rares ( leash) then you dont need it for anything else other then insurance. Might as well make each gold coin weigh 1 stone.


So what then would Ulmaria have to offer?

Here is the bigger problem - If you allowed random loot to drop and that is the only source of gear then ( save for LOLCRAFTED ) - Some players will still be able to get by, solo kill all the mobs - and people will still cry.


Im going a step further then - Nuke all items - and dont allow armor or weapons to be in the game. Then we will have challenge and everyone will be equal!


SHARE THE MISERY!


You guys are watching to much of this wallstreet socialism BS, get that garbage out of the video games.


How about ideas that build off of the current system instead of destroying it down to nothing?

October 13, 2011 at 7:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TwiSted
Member
Posts: 20

agree with RED here. we don't need to destroy systems, as they are what make this shard Ulmaria and not some other crappy server. We simply need to evolve with the systems. Enhancements are becoming over powered. simple answer add another dungeon with tougher mods. When players run out of content on things like WoW and Everquest they up the endgame until its tough again. wiping items will just annoy people, add tougher mobs and more higher end gameplay. as far as noobs go on the shard its easy enough to get your foot on the ladder to success so i don't think we have worries there, however we need to encourage more players and all this downtime and rollbacks aint helping :P

I think the shard is developing nicely. Since the last changes the game has definately got tougher and more of a challenge. before when the champs were dropping stupid money, i got bored in 2 days... Keep the systems just bring more content or something else to challenge those player who arnt happy. Theres a reason Wow and Diablo and Everquest do that :P

October 13, 2011 at 7:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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